Discussion questions Amazing Grace
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Sparrow
Hummingbird
Mockingbird
Sparrow
[Message #1]
Amy Lawlor:
please discuss questions: 2, 5, 6, 7, 9, 10, 11, 12 from the Amazing Grace question sheet. Please refer to the question numbers in your discussion.
[Message #2]
James Reclus:
Hello
[Message #3]
kristina oda:
hello
[Message #4]
James Reclus:
do you want to just discuss each question in order or do you want to take turns and each take one question and comment on it.
[Message #5]
kristina oda:
umm..we can answer each question and comment on it
[Message #6]
James Reclus:
okay
[Message #7]
kristina oda:
lets see...for question 2 i didnt really know what to put because honestly i never heard of marcus garvey
[Message #8]
kristina oda:
maybe i did i just dont remember him at all
[Message #9]
kristina oda:
i just put that he was someone that the kids in the community looked up to
[Message #10]
James Reclus:
For question number 2, the Marcus Garvey question, I put down that he was an active member in the African American community who was fighting for freedom and equal rights, but what he is more well known for is his "return-to-Africa" idea. Basically Garvey wanted all of the black Americans to return to Africa so that they could go back to their roots, a place where they were truly free.
[Message #11]
kristina oda:
o see i didnt know that...where did you learn that from?
[Message #12]
James Reclus:
Don't feel bad, I had to do an internet search to find out more information about him because all I could remember about him was that he wanted people to go back to Africa.
[Message #13]
kristina oda:
o hahah i c
[Message #14]
kristina oda:
okay so yes lets answer question 4. i wrote the definition from the dictionary and then i didnt really make one up yet..its still in the process
[Message #15]
kristina oda:
i can put a rural area that noone likes to believe is there but it is. This area is where the community is in poverty and they try to help out one another when they can.what do you think?
[Message #16]
James Reclus:
Your could put that, but I do not think it really would be seen as a rural area.
I had no choice but to make up my definition when I typed out my answers to the questions. I have a mac and the zip disks do not read on these computers.
Anyway, my defintion of what "ghetto" and "ghettoize" isseems to be really vague. I put that a ghetto is a rundown/abandoned section of a city in which those forced to live there are a minority group whom are very poor in terms of economic status in society. As for ghettoize, I put that it meant to place/force someone into a ghetto or to suffer through the despicable conditions one who lives there goes through.
[Message #17]
kristina oda:
hey thats pretty good! im not really good putting other words in other words get it??
[Message #18]
Ruth SanJuan:
do any of you guys use that word
[Message #19]
Ruth SanJuan:
if so, what did you think it meant when you first heard or used it
[Message #20]
James Reclus:
You may be able to use impoverished community instead of rural area because I think rural area is something like the suburbs, but I could be wrong
[Message #21]
James Reclus:
Are you all ready to move on to question number 5?
[Message #22]
Ruth SanJuan:
yeah
[Message #23]
kristina oda:
yes
[Message #24]
kristina oda:
i put yes the statement can be true becuase these children have been badly hurt and disfigured. Everyone on the outside of poverty may think badly of them but the other children and people dont make fun of them. The children i poverty should feel this way because the people on the outside of poverty make them feel this way. they dont even try to help out or other people may make fun of the children because they are "different". The "world" is i reference to anyone that is not in the community that understands how they feel. well that's what i think
[Message #25]
Ruth SanJuan:
Children in poverty feel that the world doesnt like them because the world sees children as unknowledgeable about the real world. Or at least they assume this of children. So children are treated like nusances or spoiled with attention or materialistic things. If you are a child in "Amazing Grace" you don't have materialistic things, so most of the time you're treated negatively.
[Message #26]
James Reclus:
I felt that this statement was not true. If you look at it scientifically you could say that the world does not have a conscious mind and therefore is unable to like or dislike anything that goes on on its surface thus this statement would be untrue. If you take the world to mean its inhabitants than I would say that most of the people feel like the world hates them, but in actuality many people just do not care about anyone other than themselves, their family, and their friends. With that in mind it could be said the people inhabiting the world take advantage of this and change things to better suit their own personal/greedy ambitions. No one should ever be made to feel this way; however, many people in these ghettos sadly do feel this way and it is just not right. That is why I said that this statement was not true.
[Message #27]
Ruth SanJuan:
The world can be adults, educational and government institutions.
[Message #28]
James Reclus:
Sorry, I took the question to mean "should the children feel this way" not "do they have the right to feel this way". Anyone has the right to feel anything they want to feel; however, many of the things that the children of the ghettos have to go through I personally feel no one should ever have to go through.
[Message #29]
James Reclus:
Okay then, ready to move on to question number 6?
[Message #30]
Ruth SanJuan:
yup
[Message #31]
kristina oda:
okie dokie
[Message #32]
kristina oda:
in this chapter i picked a young lady named Charlayne, because she's an educated women that tries really hard to hold everything down, especially when she got a son. she talks about how her son cries all night sometimes because of the gun shots and she cries too because shes scared to go to the door. Every dealer carries a gun even some girls. knowing the tricks mainly is about what everyone else see's is not the only thing. you have to live through it to really find out what they are doing. with out you can never feel what these people feel.
[Message #33]
Ruth SanJuan:
How does the sentence "WHen you're backstage, you know the tricks" apply to your character
[Message #34]
James Reclus:
The person I chose to answer this question was Mrs. Washington. I put that she would respond by saying: "...just things you do to stay alive. Everyone knows even if they cannot say waht the 'tricks' actually are and everyone most definately tries to avoid them, but in the end many people cannot and they end up dead."
I know it seems to make little if any sense, but it did when I wrote it. Anyway, I defined "tricks" as being the things those in power do to hide the ghettos from the rest of the world. They painted the sides of abandoned buidling that are facing the expressway so that tourist and the wealthier people would be fooled into thinking that this is what the area acutally looked like.
[Message #35]
kristina oda:
yup that is the truth though
[Message #36]
James Reclus:
sad but true
[Message #37]
James Reclus:
ready for question number 7?
[Message #38]
James Reclus:
This was actually one of the harder question to answer and I feel really bad about what I put down for my answer.
I felt that the girl would be lucky if she was able to scrub floors for a living and worse comes to worse she will be climbing into trucks under and expressway somewhere. I only put this down thought because of the fact that the little girl is not being given the opportunities that she deserves to be given and her future will suffer as a consequence.
[Message #39]
kristina oda:
i know i put that its hard to figure it out for this girl. because it seems that her grandma is really strict on her and she wants her to go places in life but then again i think to myself and she's only 6. alot of things can change for her in the next decade. and if she lives where she does it might not be good because of all the influences in her life that surround her.
[Message #40]
Ruth SanJuan:
The odds are in favor for the small girl to be involved in something that rewards her with a high level of self-satisfaction. The little girl was beyond elated when she revealed to Kozol that she can perform a task such as washing the dishes. Analytically speaking, this statement from a little girl can be seen as hint that the little girl takes a lot of satisfaction from manual labor. She will probably take it and end up scrubbing floors or "Get in the truck". But if she's lucky, hopefully, someone will come and change her outlook in life.
[Message #41]
James Reclus:
I would love to be able to say that she will get into a great college somewhere, but because of the conditions she and so many like her are forced to live in that is just not a feasible outcome. I understand that it may come off as cruel, but I feel that people need to wake up and realize that not everything in life is beautiful. That people are suffering, not in some far away place, but right here in our own country.
[Message #42]
kristina oda:
so i really didnt put a answer except for so/so because i cant really tell and i dont want to think the worse.
[Message #43]
James Reclus:
It is too bad that Kozol did not go back and find out waht has happened to these people since he last talked to them. It would allow us to answer this question with a little more truth instead of taking wild guesses. Really that is all that we have said because we cannot possible know what the little girl and so many like her are going through or have gone through in their lives.
[Message #44]
James Reclus:
All right, ready for question number 8?
[Message #45]
Ruth SanJuan:
yup
[Message #46]
James Reclus:
I was only able to come up with 4 reasons of why people feel that winter is the season of mercy.
[Message #47]
kristina oda:
i dont know if i got it right i put that they might feel that winter is the season of mercy because winter is a time of giving and when you really dont have anything to give..it's like a feeling that i cant describe or that feeling of you dont know what christmas is..
[Message #48]
Ruth SanJuan:
Did anyone catch the sentence. "The bears look like they're sleeping, too."? I loved this statement. He describes the negative players, such as the drug dealers, as mammals that attacks anything that is foreign to them
[Message #49]
kristina oda:
bye guys!
[Message #50]
Ruth SanJuan:
bye
[Message #51]
James Reclus:
1. People are more aware of their good fortune and so they feel they must spread that good fortune to the less fortunate.
2. People feel guilty that they are living the way that they are and so they give money/etc. expecting/accepting/agreeing that it will rid them of their guilt.
3. Depending on the social class, it could be said that the rich or upper class only give/donate to others to show people that they are rich and can afford to give things away.
4. Media/Religion promote this idea that you can only give during the season of mercy. People seem to "buy" into it, but many people just think that it is true and that they cannot give if it is not the season of mercy. Basically, Media/Religion use the season of mercy as promotion for themselves. To show people that they do what it takes to help others although they forget to tell people that they can actually keep giving throughout the entire year.
[Message #52]
James Reclus:
Sorry, late response. Well see you all later.
[Message #53]
Amy Lawlor:
end
Mockingbird
[Message #1]
Amy Lawlor:
please discuss questions: 2, 5, 6, 7, 9, 10, 11, 12 from the Amazing Grace question sheet. Please refer to the question numbers in your discussion.
[Message #2]
Alex Daugherty:
so, what did you think about the 2nd question, about marcus garvey?
[Message #3]
Urias Mauricio:
The dictionary states that Marcus Garvey was a Jamaican Black nationalist active in the US from 1887 to 1940
[Message #4]
EMMA JIMENEZ:
so, to start off with number 2, the book doesn't really explain who marcus garvey is, but the children mention him because they learned about him in school. marcus garvey was an activist for blacks who established the universal negro improvement association.
[Message #5]
Alex Daugherty:
why do you think the children in tht chapter identify with him, and not MLK?
[Message #6]
EMMA JIMENEZ:
he believed in the brotherhood of man. i think that the children were excited about knowing who marcus garvey was because many other people don't. mlk is so well-known.
[Message #7]
Alex Daugherty:
so you dont think it has anything to do with garveys's ideology?
[Message #8]
EMMA JIMENEZ:
what do you think?
[Message #9]
Alex Daugherty:
i think that since garvey wanted for black people to be economically independent and succesful, this view may be a bit more tangeble to the children.
[Message #10]
EMMA JIMENEZ:
yeah, i didn't do research on him, but i assume that he isn't as famous as mlk b/c he was more low-key. mlk had so much publicity. the kids don't identify with that. yeah, i think garvy's goals were more realistic.
[Message #11]
EMMA JIMENEZ:
and he wasn't just one-sided with the blacks. he believed in brotherhood.
[Message #12]
EMMA JIMENEZ:
what did you say to #5?
[Message #13]
Urias Mauricio:
According to the children in the book, the reason why they chose him as a hero for black people is because he wasn't as popular as MLK.
[Message #14]
Alex Daugherty:
my response was that people ignore them more than hate them. but i do think that there actually is underlying resentment of poor people amoung the middle class.
[Message #15]
EMMA JIMENEZ:
i think that by "they" he means higher class society and those with political power in the city. they are kind of left to survive on their own by either toughing it out or making it on their own.
[Message #16]
Alex Daugherty:
that is pretty much what i put.
[Message #17]
EMMA JIMENEZ:
I don't think that the world hates them, but I do think that life is unfair and so are some people, so you're right, it's resentment that they feel towards those who overlook them.
[Message #18]
EMMA JIMENEZ:
do you think the children should feel that the world hates them?
[Message #19]
Alex Daugherty:
i dont think it is a positive thing to think, but in their circumstances, it is a logical conclusion. so, yes, i think that their feelings are valid.
[Message #20]
EMMA JIMENEZ:
i think that it just makes them feel worthless and discouraged. the feeling of hatred will just become reciprocated and the cycle will continue.
[Message #21]
Alex Daugherty:
i agree.
[Message #22]
Urias Mauricio:
The children should not feel that they are disliked because they have been horribly disfigured in many household fires, but they should understand that it is more like thy are being swept under the carpet by the ones that can provide support for them
[Message #23]
EMMA JIMENEZ:
i think that keeping the truth about things from children just harms them more, but at the same time, hate is too strong of a feeing for children to be having.
[Message #24]
Alex Daugherty:
well, you cant regulate their feelings, they have every reason to assume that they and other poor people are hated.
[Message #25]
EMMA JIMENEZ:
good point. for the sixth question i chose lee stuart the community organizer that worked in the south bronx who pointed out all the new developments that were planned for the neighborhood. the police academy, the house of detention, and the reform school were projects the city was working on. they tried to convince people that it was a good idea because it would provide more jobs for people in the neighborhood, but what they didn't mention was in order for people to keep those jobs, they had to depend on crime to continue on. it was more like a guarantee that the greif will continue on.
[Message #26]
Alex Daugherty:
that is a very valid observation.
[Message #27]
EMMA JIMENEZ:
yeah, i would've never thought of that. what did you answer?
[Message #28]
Alex Daugherty:
i put that the people of the neighborhood are being ignored, painted over, i guess. i used anthony in chapter three as my person. i pretty much put that he would think that they were being abused.
[Message #29]
EMMA JIMENEZ:
yeah, it makes them feel helpless.
[Message #30]
Urias Mauricio:
that is a good point that you make because the tricks that go on backstage can only be seen by the people who live in the ghetto. They are the ones who can see all the tricks that the city officials have up their sleeve before they put on a show for the people outside the ghetto and show them that everything is is fine when it is really not. This leaves the poor people, like you said, with a felling of helplesness.
[Message #31]
Alex Daugherty:
i agree with that.
[Message #32]
EMMA JIMENEZ:
yeah, it's surprising to see just how informed the people are, like Mrs.Washington has all the facts about things. i think that they keep it to themselves because no one will believe them or care about it.
[Message #33]
Urias Mauricio:
On question # 7, Kozol tries to imagine the future for a young 6 year old girl with very little opportunities. The truth is that a lot of these children are bright and have great potential for the future. But instead of showing them the doorways, the people who they depend on to provide them with their right to a decent education, are shutting the door in their face.
[Message #34]
Amy Lawlor:
end
Hummingbird
[Message #1]
Amy Lawlor:
please discuss questions: 2, 5, 6, 7, 9, 10, 11, 12 from the Amazing Grace question sheet. Please refer to the question numbers in your discussion.
[Message #2]
Nancy Duran:
Hello
[Message #3]
Erica Ruiz:
hey
[Message #4]
Chochi Santos:
Yo.
[Message #5]
Nancy Duran:
This is question #2
Marcus Garvey is someone that the children admire who in not mention very often in the textbooks. They named him becasue they were tried of hearing about Martin Luther King.
[Message #6]
Erica Ruiz:
For question 2, I wrote:
Marcus Garvey was born in Jamaica and came to America to fight for the civil rights and equlity of all black people. He is not mentioned much in the history books. The children named him because they want someone to relate with and say that Dr. King was mentioned too much and don't think Dr. King did much.
[Message #7]
Chochi Santos:
That's kinda messed up.
[Message #8]
Erica Ruiz:
What is?
[Message #9]
Chochi Santos:
Dr. King did more for black people and all immigrants than Marcus Garvey.
[Message #10]
Chochi Santos:
I don't even think I'd be living here today if he hadn't have fought for civil rights here.
[Message #11]
Chochi Santos:
He's more of a hero to me than my own national hero.
[Message #12]
Chochi Santos:
Marcus Garvey is dope too, but I think these kids are just bringing him up over Dr. King because it's like the "in" thing to go with whatever's underground.
[Message #13]
Nancy Duran:
Let's move on to question five.
[Message #14]
Erica Ruiz:
I guess that the children feel that they haven't yet got their civil rights or equality, since they live in such a horrible environment. They see that they don't get everything that white children get and know that they are quarantined from the rest of society. They feel that they are not wanted.
[Message #15]
Chochi Santos:
I agree.
[Message #16]
Nancy Duran:
This is true and they are intitled to feel this way because they are able to see the injustice on how they are treated differently for white children etc.
[Message #17]
Nancy Duran:
What person did you choose for number three?
[Message #18]
Erica Ruiz:
For question 5,
I do not believe this statement is true, but the people that live there have a different perspective. They feel that it is that way. They feel that the "world", which I believe is everyone that doesn't live in the South Bronx, does not like them much because of the environment "they" have put them in. These children are denied the right to proper education and are from an early age, it seem to me, destined to continue the cycle of violence, drugs, etc. They should not feel this way because if they become accustomed to their situation, they will feel hopeless and not want to do anything to change their situation. They should believe the "world" can be changed and should allow them to live a decent life.
[Message #19]
Chochi Santos:
I agree. They should be able to believe that the "world" CAN be changed so that they may live a decent life.
[Message #20]
Chochi Santos:
And it's true: the feeling of hopelessness often leads people to do bad things (not that it's any excuse).
[Message #21]
Chochi Santos:
I like how you noticed that the "world" means, "everyone that doesn't live in the South Bronx."
[Message #22]
Erica Ruiz:
For question 6,
I chose David, Ms. Washington's son. He would explain the tricks as being the acts of the 'evil' people. He believes that everyone that knows about their living conditions and does nothing to help them, are evil. He questions, why "they" have put them in an unclean place and try to ignore the fact that it is inhumane for people to live like that. One example, is the services that were going to be cut because of "fiscal shortages" when it fact it the city has lots of money but doesn't want to spend it on the services that would help the people of the South Bronx.
[Message #23]
Erica Ruiz:
Thanks.
[Message #24]
Erica Ruiz:
Who did you guys chose?
[Message #25]
Nancy Duran:
I agree that he knows the tricks.
[Message #26]
Nancy Duran:
I didn't know how to question the question so I skipped over this one.
[Message #27]
Erica Ruiz:
What about question 7? What odds did you guys write?
[Message #28]
Nancy Duran:
Number 7
Kozol mentions how she might go to Harward University, or another universtity or college, or cleaning floor, or become a prostitute.
[Message #29]
Azran Ashroff:
yo
[Message #30]
Chochi Santos:
Wassup
[Message #31]
Azran Ashroff:
are we talking about the questions? and what #???
[Message #32]
Chochi Santos:
Yeah: number seven.
[Message #33]
Nancy Duran:
I beleive that the odd in here going to Haward are slim but if she has the grade then it is a posibility that she could go there. On here becoming a cleaning lady or prostitute are something that can most likely happen if she doesn't educate herself and get with the wrong crowd since it is common where she lives.
[Message #34]
Nancy Duran:
I am answering question seven.
[Message #35]
Erica Ruiz:
I basically wrote that the "pleasant little person" would most likely not be going to Harvard or another college or University because the children of the South Bronx are not provided with a proper education therefore they are not given any opportunity to continue their education. Also, they don't get much help when it comes to financial aid or programs that would allow them to go to college. If they can barely have something to eat, I doubt that they will have the resources to go to college. It is very difficult to go school and concentrate on your learning when your stomach is empty and don't have energy because of the lack of proper nutriction. The second option, scrubbing floors in Manhattan, is something that a lot of the children would dream of doing in their future. For them have such a job is already making it. It seems so hard to get a job like that, that many try to learn this in high school or some technical school so they can find a job as a janitor. The children might be very bright, but their expectations are very low. The third option, being a prostitute, will even though it may sound very harsh, that's what will most likely happen because of the lost opportunities to become someone in their lives. They might not see many other options and feel that that is the only thing they can do to survive, especially if they are drug addicts.
[Message #36]
Amy Lawlor:
end