James Loewen Chapter 2
[Message #1]
michael mark:
hello all.
[Message #2]
Jennifer Ho:
hey
[Message #3]
Ruth SanJuan:
hello
[Message #4]
Erica Ruiz:
hello
[Message #5]
Ruth SanJuan:
let's talk about Christopher Columbus :)
[Message #6]
kristina oda:
good morning guys
[Message #7]
michael mark:
so I take it the chapter was about how sanitary history books can be for h.s. students. Iactually did not know about wilson's racist tactics.
[Message #8]
Ruth SanJuan:
did anyone read the entire chapter?
[Message #9]
michael mark:
So is everybody awake?
[Message #10]
Ruth SanJuan:
i am
[Message #11]
Erica Ruiz:
I did
[Message #12]
michael mark:
sort of can't remember much of it
[Message #13]
Jennifer Ho:
yea, i didn't really read the chapter...
[Message #14]
Jennifer Ho:
yet
[Message #15]
kristina oda:
so were not suppose to read the whole book right?? only the chapters that it says on the paper??
[Message #16]
Ruth SanJuan:
I know it talked about Columbus and the events and environment around him
[Message #17]
Ruth SanJuan:
yup
[Message #18]
michael mark:
yes
[Message #19]
kristina oda:
okay just wondering
[Message #20]
michael mark:
are you sure chapter one was about christopher columbus?
[Message #21]
michael mark:
I thiught it was about wilson and keller
[Message #22]
Jennifer Ho:
chapter one or chapter two
[Message #23]
Ruth SanJuan:
i know it talks about the fact that textbooks never talk about previous explorers of America
[Message #24]
Ruth SanJuan:
chap 2
[Message #25]
kristina oda:
chapter one was basically the introduction to what the history was and what we will be reading about right??
[Message #26]
Erica Ruiz:
I think one of the main points is that Columbus wasn't the first person the "discovered" America, but that other explorers did.
[Message #27]
Ruth SanJuan:
yeah
[Message #28]
michael mark:
you know what I'm in the wrong group , sorry folks for the confusion.
[Message #29]
Ruth SanJuan:
its ok
[Message #30]
Erica Ruiz:
Also it talks about how Europeans are credited with modern technology when, in fact, Columbus and Europe learned a lot of things from other countries such as Haiti in the 1400's.
[Message #31]
Ruth SanJuan:
also that Europe wasn't really as wealthy and powerful as they were reported as being
[Message #32]
kristina oda:
chapter two also says that "most text books note the increase in international trade and commerce, and some relate the rise of nation-states under monarchies. Otherwise they do a poor job of describing the changes in Europe that led to the Age of Exploration." so the text books in the class rooms are lying even about the trade that was going on.
[Message #33]
Erica Ruiz:
Also, it says that Columbus was the one that started the slave trade. Also that his expedition to America was not to only for discovery purposes, but that they were in search of gold. Also, Columbus ensalved the natives and developed the tribute system and the encomienda system. He forced the Indian slaves to give him a large bell of gold dust every three months otherwise they would be punished. They would get their hands cut off.
[Message #34]
Ruth SanJuan:
yeah it couldn't have been for spices, like some books say, because the Turks didn't cut off the spice trade with Europeans. They were making money off of it.
[Message #35]
kristina oda:
back in those days they made money off of anything though
[Message #36]
Erica Ruiz:
Columbus would also rape the slave women and let his lieutenants rape any women or child if they pleased. All of these gory facts about Columbus is not what they teach us in high school. That's, I believe, the main point of this chapter.
[Message #37]
kristina oda:
it also says in the book that we celebrate most discoveries because they were first and also the fact that they are white. not because of events that flowed or did not flow from their accomplishments.
[Message #38]
Erica Ruiz:
yeah, it says that in Mexico and other Latin countries they don't celebrate Columbus day because he is a white hero.
[Message #39]
kristina oda:
i dont know but i know that we stopped celebrating columbus day too..because something about the indians thought it was unfair or something
[Message #40]
Ruth SanJuan:
It became Discoverer's or Explorer's day
[Message #41]
Erica Ruiz:
oh, I didn't know that.
[Message #42]
kristina oda:
i didnt know that eitheir. i still know it as columbus day
[Message #43]
Ruth SanJuan:
when you look at calendar's it's not supposed to say that anymore
[Message #44]
kristina oda:
o i have to go home and look at it
[Message #45]
Jennifer Ho:
so the main point is that columbus isnt who we learned him to be
and that textbooks exaggerate or dont give enough details
[Message #46]
Jennifer Ho:
he did a lot more bad than good basically
[Message #47]
kristina oda:
yeh and the text books make him sound like this good person that did good deeds.
[Message #48]
Erica Ruiz:
this chapter also states that "by not appreciating how important American has been in the formation of the modern world....is a theft that impoverishes us, keeps us ignorant of what caused the world to develop as it has" i guess what this is saying is that everything is credited to Europe and Columbus and all the contributions the Americas did go unnoticed becasue the textbook authors don't include them in their interpretation of history.
[Message #49]
kristina oda:
you know whats funny im learning about colombus in my history class right now and yeh now that im finding out all this new info it's funny
[Message #50]
Amy Lawlor:
Kristina, that's perfect! what are you learning?
[Message #51]
kristina oda:
im learning about how columbus was asking the queen for money and how he went to these destinations and since he came back to the queen with all these nice things the queen and king gave him more money to keep sailing and finding land
[Message #52]
kristina oda:
and of course how he thought that the land was FLAT
[Message #53]
Ruth SanJuan:
everyone at that time thought it was flat
[Message #54]
Jennifer Ho:
you know what im thinking>> how does loewen know about all this>> and how does he get his information>>> maybe the textbooks gave us all that good stuff about columbus because thats what the writers were taught too
[Message #55]
Jennifer Ho:
and they had no idea because they werent able to read the book we"re reading now
[Message #56]
kristina oda:
hahah i dont know
[Message #57]
Ruth SanJuan:
loewen probably took the information from a collection of sources
[Message #58]
Ruth SanJuan:
sources from all sides of the field to get a more diverse knowledge
[Message #59]
kristina oda:
they do alot of research but if all the text books say the same thing isnt it funny
[Message #60]
Erica Ruiz:
i think he got the information from a Las Casas that perserved the letters that Columbus would send to the Queen
[Message #61]
Ruth SanJuan:
its actually disappointing
[Message #62]
kristina oda:
okay guys talk to you later bye!
[Message #63]
Erica Ruiz:
bye
[Message #64]
Ruth SanJuan:
bye
[Message #65]
Jennifer Ho:
bye everybody
[Message #66]
Amy Lawlor:
end 2/20