James Loewen Introduction
[Message #1]
Gilberto Lopez:
Good morning
[Message #2]
Tim Ashton:
good morning....
[Message #3]
Tim Ashton:
If you are in group one.....cough
[Message #4]
Tim Ashton:
The first thing I remember about the reading is that he truelyt believes that high school history classes suck
[Message #5]
Gilberto Lopez:
should we really fake a cough
[Message #6]
Tim Ashton:
naw...i just wanted to see who was in my grou[p
[Message #7]
Gilberto Lopez:
it states how high school teachers don't really give their students the education they should get
& I think thats true
[Message #8]
Tim Ashton:
OK.....from the reading JL starts by asking people about the classes they had in HS
He then identifies History as one of the least favorite classes
[Message #9]
Tim Ashton:
YEah I agree.
[Message #10]
Tim Ashton:
I dont really remember my hs historu class and I think that is one of his points.
History is an exciting subjust when I study it on my own.....It is only when I hear it in the constructs of a classromm that it becomes borring to me.
[Message #11]
Azran Ashroff:
Hey people
[Message #12]
Gilberto Lopez:
my teacher just drove us nuts by putting on the video from Ricky Martin (living la vida loca) almost every single day
thats the way we started our day
[Message #13]
Tim Ashton:
ok...that would suck.
[Message #14]
Azran Ashroff:
lol and liked watching him dance huh?
[Message #15]
Azran Ashroff:
so what we talking about here? history?
[Message #16]
Tim Ashton:
If I never hear that song again...it would be to soon.
[Message #17]
Tim Ashton:
Well yeah...and Ricky Martin
[Message #18]
Azran Ashroff:
talkin bout history and ricky martin?
[Message #19]
Tim Ashton:
According to the text...the teachers themselves...realize the short comings of their classes but are either unable or unwilling to change them.
[Message #20]
Gilberto Lopez:
no just the intro from the book
[Message #21]
Tim Ashton:
IT is then pointed out that as soon as a student gets to college....the teachers need to start deprogramming the things that were taught to the student in highschool
[Message #22]
Azran Ashroff:
isnt it about how lke they leave out main points about
"heros"?
[Message #23]
Tim Ashton:
That is chapter 1......we are in the intro
[Message #24]
Azran Ashroff:
my badd
[Message #25]
Azran Ashroff:
i usually to get into the intro
[Message #26]
Tim Ashton:
sa'll good
[Message #27]
Azran Ashroff:
cause i feel its mostly about author. what does the intro state though? anything tight?
[Message #28]
Tim Ashton:
The intro just reviews the current state of high school history classes
[Message #29]
Azran Ashroff:
oh okay so they mention ricky martin's name in there?
[Message #30]
Azran Ashroff:
how was your high school history class?
[Message #31]
Azran Ashroff:
at times i feel that history is nice t know buyt after a certain age
[Message #32]
Tim Ashton:
no...Gilberto had to watch RM in hois class....
[Message #33]
Gilberto Lopez:
it also states how all the problems from the past have already been solved or are in the process
[Message #34]
Azran Ashroff:
cause yeah thye make us board and we dont think about it as much but when u get odler it seems pretty cool
[Message #35]
Tim Ashton:
History is important because it helps us realize the lies that we are told everyday.
[Message #36]
Azran Ashroff:
that too but basically why are people of history?
[Message #37]
Azran Ashroff:
like yeah they supposed to be remembered
for doing nice things
[Message #38]
Tim Ashton:
The lies in history don't start with the text books. they start with the way events are reported immedaitely after they occured.
[Message #39]
Gilberto Lopez:
it seems like we have to teach ourselves
[Message #40]
Tim Ashton:
EXACTLEY!
[Message #41]
Tim Ashton:
And teaching ourselves is not a very popular activity
[Message #42]
Azran Ashroff:
yeah fa sho thats true. remember when 9/11 happened. iam just sayin thing. but thye shouwe a pic of people in the middle east celebrating when it was clearly day time the when it is suppsed to be night time there and day time in the u.s.
[Message #43]
Azran Ashroff:
they portray events WAYYY off at times
[Message #44]
Tim Ashton:
Take 911.....Like the Prof. said....most people think that attack was unwarrented
[Message #45]
Azran Ashroff:
yup
[Message #46]
Azran Ashroff:
true
[Message #47]
Tim Ashton:
So far off that the truth is lost...but once it is lost...what are we suppose to do to get it back?
[Message #48]
Tim Ashton:
It is our history....but it gets lost in words.
[Message #49]
Azran Ashroff:
i guess its liek a maze. search and find and report desires
[Message #50]
Azran Ashroff:
i think history is just something that gives human bengs somehting t talk about everyday
[Message #51]
Tim Ashton:
yup...the author points out that outside of school people show in interest in history....movies books and what not
[Message #52]
Tim Ashton:
He complains that current text books never use the past to illuminate the present.....
[Message #53]
Gilberto Lopez:
& all the modified news
[Message #54]
Tim Ashton:
ANd that the text books suck
[Message #55]
Azran Ashroff:
issnt everything history?
what we did yesterday too right?
[Message #56]
Tim Ashton:
what you typed two seconds ago is history
[Message #57]
Tim Ashton:
The last breathe you took is history
[Message #58]
Azran Ashroff:
text books suck cause u know what i find wierd. is that the person who rights the text book is a human being jus tlike everyone else. and its wird we choose to READ that particular person
[Message #59]
Azran Ashroff:
and its like they have thier say in the way they want, and other authros have the say in what they want, it just a trend.
[Message #60]
Tim Ashton:
Yeah...and that person has faults and perspectives that may change the content of what he is writing.
[Message #61]
Azran Ashroff:
authors are human beings, and they write what they belive. they ather info. true. but they want it to be inteesting as well.
[Message #62]
Tim Ashton:
He says histoiry books are clones of each other.
[Message #63]
Azran Ashroff:
belive me if an author said th efull thruth and it was talkin *shit* then i bet u anything peopel would question the author more then the info.
[Message #64]
Azran Ashroff:
u feel me ?
[Message #65]
Tim Ashton:
true.....so it would take a brave person to write a good history boook.
[Message #66]
Azran Ashroff:
well yeah even that is judgement
[Message #67]
Tim Ashton:
And once it was written, there is no garuntee that it would get into a class room.
[Message #68]
Azran Ashroff:
cuase it aint liek eveyrone knows that person is good
[Message #69]
Amy Lawlor:
what does that tell you about the way history is taught?
[Message #70]
Tim Ashton:
And real, true history takes volumes of books to tell the whole story
[Message #71]
Tim Ashton:
History class is a compromise. There is no way to tell the whole story in 4 pages.
[Message #72]
Azran Ashroff:
true. i know teachers are tight and they want to be good. what makes u think teachers want to reaveal truth all the time? some teachers do, but others like that "debate": type classes
so maybe thiers a certain book in which they follow. like the book my lies my teacher told me is a tight book cause are teacher actually found out that its a book that makes us think . cuase have u guys heard of the book be4?
[Message #73]
Tim Ashton:
ANd there is no way to get HS kids to read 1000 books about the civil war.
[Message #74]
Tim Ashton:
nope...its a new book to me.....and I like it.
[Message #75]
Azran Ashroff:
same here
its hecka interesting
[Message #76]
Tim Ashton:
So teachers have a choice......tell only the good or only the bad....they only have a limited amount of time
[Message #77]
Azran Ashroff:
cuase i mean who wouldnt want to know what lies teachers have told them? cause now we acutally think about what the teacher did talk bout u feel me?
[Message #78]
Azran Ashroff:
damn straight.
[Message #79]
Tim Ashton:
Does mean that the teachers are "lairs"?
[Message #80]
Gilberto Lopez:
my teacher has also pinted out that we do better on exams based on four movies then we do on an exam that is based on 5 pages
[Message #81]
Azran Ashroff:
i mean i had bad teachers n i had off da hook teachers. t
[Message #82]
Tim Ashton:
That is a harsh label.
[Message #83]
Azran Ashroff:
teachers aint liars
but they tell us what they belive too u feel me
[Message #84]
Azran Ashroff:
yeah that is a harsh label. i dont think teachers are liars.
[Message #85]
Tim Ashton:
That movie vs reading thing is real interesting.....
[Message #86]
Amy Lawlor:
we're not!
[Message #87]
Amy Lawlor:
: )
[Message #88]
Tim Ashton:
I think teaching is one of the most honorable professions (after Physics of course)....but they are powerless....in HS at least.
[Message #89]
Azran Ashroff:
true.
[Message #90]
Tim Ashton:
It is a budget issue.
[Message #91]
Gilberto Lopez:
it also depends on the high school also
[Message #92]
Tim Ashton:
Not enough time or money.
[Message #93]
Amy Lawlor:
but you folks bring up a good point--since history is too vast to discuss entirely truthfully (if that's even possible) how can it be taught in a way that avoids the problems Loewen complains about?
[Message #94]
Gilberto Lopez:
like public schools
[Message #95]
Tim Ashton:
true....did anyone go to private HS...I went publically and dropped out my sophimore year......
[Message #96]
Azran Ashroff:
yeah chirst the king in new york
[Message #97]
Azran Ashroff:
all boys it was hard yo
[Message #98]
Tim Ashton:
Was it better the public school?
[Message #99]
Azran Ashroff:
its a joy to see women in class rooms finally
[Message #100]
Azran Ashroff:
yeah
[Message #101]
Azran Ashroff:
straight strict
[Message #102]
Tim Ashton:
The entire institution of education needs re-vamped.
[Message #103]
Azran Ashroff:
true
[Message #104]
Tim Ashton:
The separation of subjects means that you only have 50 mins to teach history......why not combine history and english?....seems like a good fit to me.
[Message #105]
Gilberto Lopez:
but also the way they convey the information
[Message #106]
Azran Ashroff:
but u knw the system is the system
it can be changed, but theres always goign to be somehting stopping it from beings fully changes
[Message #107]
Azran Ashroff:
that be difficutle i think cuase eng. and history too different things i think
[Message #108]
Azran Ashroff:
history of english?
[Message #109]
Tim Ashton:
There is nothing worse then asking a chem teacher a question and having them say "Well, thats a math question...."
[Message #110]
Tim Ashton:
But are they different?
[Message #111]
Azran Ashroff:
too broad yo
[Message #112]
Azran Ashroff:
u got that be4?
[Message #113]
Tim Ashton:
English is reading and writing....History is reading and writing
[Message #114]
Azran Ashroff:
where are u guys in the readings?
[Message #115]
Tim Ashton:
You think they are different because they taught them separately.....the sage does not separate the two...or anything ewlse for that matter.
[Message #116]
Gilberto Lopez:
i think it would make things more complicated
[Message #117]
Azran Ashroff:
true thats what i think
[Message #118]
Tim Ashton:
I think the dividing lines is what causes complication.
[Message #119]
Azran Ashroff:
cause history is strickly bout that past right???
[Message #120]
Tim Ashton:
No....thats the problem...it is not only about the past...but that is how they teach it.
[Message #121]
Tim Ashton:
It should also illuminate the present and future....which is exactley what JL is saying
[Message #122]
Azran Ashroff:
well i mean what is the definition of history?
[Message #123]
Azran Ashroff:
i mean books aint bout present
[Message #124]
Tim Ashton:
Sure....the past....but I would deinfe it as....using the past to understand the present.
[Message #125]
Azran Ashroff:
they mostly of past stuff unless they like ms.cleo or nastradamus writing futrue minded books
[Message #126]
Tim Ashton:
They do not teach you history because the facts are useful....they teach it to make good Americans...in their view
[Message #127]
Azran Ashroff:
anbd plus if they did it would all "guess" or they think type stuff u feel me?
[Message #128]
Azran Ashroff:
cause until it happens
its just nothing speacial
[Message #129]
Azran Ashroff:
after it happens its history
[Message #130]
Gilberto Lopez:
and using the future to build history
[Message #131]
Azran Ashroff:
thats like LYING to an extreme
[Message #132]
Tim Ashton:
ANd AFTER it happens...it is to late to change to outcome
[Message #133]
Gilberto Lopez:
we all do it
[Message #134]
Azran Ashroff:
if u use history to build futre...thats like dream world
[Message #135]
Azran Ashroff:
fa sho we humans. i do it too. but in books it be weird to see that
[Message #136]
Tim Ashton:
As a Basket ball coach....do you watch old games to prepare for future ones?
[Message #137]
Azran Ashroff:
yeah u learn
[Message #138]
Azran Ashroff:
u coach b-ball?
[Message #139]
Tim Ashton:
you review history to prepare for the future my man
[Message #140]
Gilberto Lopez:
not like that you use the future to build history
[Message #141]
Azran Ashroff:
shit thats my lyfe. i play. we have to review for games on tape days
[Message #142]
Gilberto Lopez:
you plan out what you want
[Message #143]
Azran Ashroff:
to get us true
[Message #144]
Azran Ashroff:
but books aint see that though
[Message #145]
Gilberto Lopez:
see you guys monday
[Message #146]
Tim Ashton:
That is using history to understand the future.....
[Message #147]
Tim Ashton:
late
[Message #148]
Azran Ashroff:
peace.
[Message #149]
Amy Lawlor:
end 2/20