March 12
class cancelled on Monday for rally in Sacramento
bring back a receipt from sacramento for extra credit, plus a 2 page journal
Rough draft due on Wed.
1) According to these authors, what are the ways (general and specific) that education fails students?
2) How does a reading of these authors provide a background to understanding Loewen?
Dewey
[Message #1]
Nancy Duran:
This essay talks about both traditional and progressive education. The author is not for one side he has a good balance of info. for both. Traditional is easier to teach since it has been around for a long time and the progressive is newer so it is challenging to teach. He mentions how it is important to teach both new and old material.
[Message #2]
Nancy Duran:
This relates to Loewen because Jonathan Kozol say it is important to teach traditional and progressive and Loewen also think that history teacher should talk about how history is related to the present.
[Message #3]
michael mark:
"Between traditional and Progressive education" The title sugests that the article will discuss both subject matters equally and not be for or against unequally . It is balanced.
The article seems to have a good mix of both You can't be progressive only you need to start off with a base, a foundation to build on. the two need to co exist with each other in order to make sense with the student .
Lowen seems to say that the traditional that the traditional is not practical in todays h.s. education, it needs to be customized to the student. but Dewey wants to use both Traditional and progressive information and teaching styles for students.
[Message #4]
Nancy Duran:
Not Kozol meant Dewey!
[Message #5]
Amy Lawlor:
end
eliot
[Message #1]
Ruth SanJuan:
2. What was the main idea? What did you find out?
-The main idea of the story was that a committee of 10 was appointed to determine the future of American Education. The committee was able to come up with suggestions and guidelines that secondary schools should follow in their institutions. We found out that the committee came up with both relevant and irrelevant guidelines and suggestions in regards to todays education.
[Message #2]
Urias Mauricio:
1. It seems that in 1893 a committee was established that was supposed to revolutionize the way education was in being taught in secondary school. I believe that the National Education Association (NEA), is trying to improve student education at the time.
[Message #3]
Rico Sandriana:
3. How does this article relate to Lowen's complaints about the way U.S. History is taught?
-This essay relates to Loewan's book because the complaints stated in his book are centered around the guidelines and suggestions made by the conference of ten. For example, the conference of ten suggested that children in both elementary and high school should be taught a general scope of a variety of information. The problem with this was that when the students got to college, their learned info wasn't detailed. The students got to college, their learned info wasn't detailed. It would be difficult for these students to acquire new methods of learning and observing in these subjects like biology, and physics in college.
[Message #4]
Amy Lawlor:
end
sadker
[Message #1]
Azran Ashroff:
yo
[Message #2]
Azran Ashroff:
girls are being discriminated
[Message #3]
Azran Ashroff:
1- I think you can expect a disccussion of interation between girls and their teachers and boys annd thier teachers and thier differences. feel me?
[Message #4]
EMMA JIMENEZ:
3)The way the U.S. history teaches the wrong information, girls are given the incorrect information as well. U.S. history teaches by feeding a bunch of stats and info in order to mold people's minds into the way they wan thtem to be. In the same manner, girls are taught to be submissive, modest, and quiet beings and their thoughts are preset so that they don't have to think for themselves, which is what the goal of schools is.
[Message #5]
Nick Luciano:
2) First they give a history of males and females in schooling. Then the article talks of the interactions of male and female students in todays classrooms. The main point of the essay is that women are still suppressed in todays schools, young boys are encourged to be assertive and speak their minds while young girls are encourged to be more reserved and quiet.
[Message #6]
Azran Ashroff:
3- This article realtes becuase ther both talk about lowen adnd sadker the state of education and how outr children are influenced by what teachers teach. Are little girls goign to be quiert and not speak out for themselves. thier entire lives? Arre students going to contiouslu repeat falsehistory like betsyu ross's flay pover and opver. These are the consequences of twhat teachers teach( i know i speelted allot of words worng)
[Message #7]
Tim Ashton:
but can I?
[Message #8]
Tim Ashton:
it appears I can.
[Message #9]
Azran Ashroff:
yo
[Message #10]
Mercedes Campos:
it fails in many different ways. starting with the separation of sexes and the quality of education that they get. For example the boys are being thought to be agressive and speak their minds openly. in the other side girls are expected to stay quite and let the man make the decission.
[Message #11]
EMMA JIMENEZ:
according to sadker, a lot of teachers now are still discriminating against girls in the
[Message #12]
Amy Lawlor:
end
conant
[Message #1]
kristina oda:
okay guys we are all sitting together and writing the same thing...well what we think anyway.
[Message #2]
kristina oda:
okay guys what number you want to do
[Message #3]
Tim Ashton:
swet
[Message #4]
Tim Ashton:
sweet
[Message #5]
kristina oda:
okay ill do number 2.
[Message #6]
Tim Ashton:
I'll do 3
[Message #7]
kristina oda:
2. the main idea was the way different stratagy of students were taught in the in the 18 high schools surveyed along with an extended explaination of how to structure schools more culturely.
[Message #8]
Mercedes Campos:
1.
[Message #9]
Tim Ashton:
3. Every was compartmentalized, students were separated and treated by potential as defined by administration. Girls andboys were treated differently and expectations were treated differently and expectations were set in accordance with social roles.
[Message #10]
Mercedes Campos:
1. A review and critique of the high school system as it was defined in the late 50's, along with ideas on fixing the identifired problems.
[Message #11]
Tim Ashton:
I got a strange feeling that this was written long ago.
[Message #12]
Tim Ashton:
The language used by the author was dated.
[Message #13]
kristina oda:
yeh i know
[Message #14]
Tim Ashton:
It felt old
[Message #15]
Amy Lawlor:
end
sizer
[Message #1]
James Reclus:
hello
[Message #2]
Chochi Santos:
Hello MOTO
[Message #3]
James Reclus:
1. I expect this article to be about "what high school can be." There should be a glimpse into some high schools and the problems they face(d). Then there should be a list of sorts pointing out what needs to change and how/why it needs to change. There may even be a few examples of what has happened after the changes occured.
2. In the first part of Sizer's segment, he tells us about what he observed while watching/shadowing two students during their normal day at school. In the second part of Sizer's segment, he discusses the "Committe of Ten on Secondary School Studies" as well as the "Coalition of Essential Schools", of which he was a part. It goes on to a list that has become the "common principles of the coalition of essential schools."
[Message #4]
James Reclus:
Sorry Erica, I kind of typed up the stuff you were suppose to type, but please feel free to add whatever you feel because I know that I missed important things for question 2.
[Message #5]
Erica Ruiz:
2. He writes about nine different things he believes would better the schools. He believes one of the important issues facing schools is that students have become passive and aren't challenge and allowed to think. Also, that the teachers don't have enough time to review the student's work and therefore should have smaller classes to be able to give feed back to the students and get them more involved in the classroom. He also writes that the students should do an "Exhibition" project in the last year of high school. He basically wants things to change because he believes the traditional way the "system" works is not working and see's this as a crucial issue for students entering into working class society/college. :-)
[Message #6]
Alex Daugherty:
Loewen's ideas are related to Sizer in that they portray the inadequite ways of teaching and learning that are excerisized in society.. More specifically...
- they both belive that subjects should be not fragmented, but morre unified
-both have problems with students passivity, both feel that change is neccasary to involve students
-parents should act as collaborators(Sizer), parents as tools in teaching(Loewen)
-"Schools should not be comprehensive"(Sizer, pg. 304), Loewen belived historical events should be taught in-depth, not a skimming off the top kind of thing, which is a shallow covering of many events
- they both feel schools should provoke students to think independently
- in conflict with Loewen's views
-- "the choice of teaching materials... must be unreservedly placed in the hands of principal and staff." (305)
-- Loewen belives that teachers should teach what they feel is appropriate, not just what is given to them
(this info. is for #3)
[Message #7]
Chochi Santos:
Some of the things that Sizer complained about were certain practices that have been "discovered to be wrong headed." He believed that these practices should be discontinued. I agree with Sizer. Schools will never move forward if we keep upholding the outdated practices of the past. Did you know that most of the concepts of how school should work was never made for the purpose of educating children. For example, our idea of teaching a group of kids a standardized amount of information from a standardized book, and then testing them with a standized test was never meant to teach kids anything at all. In fact, this "routine" was made during the industrial revolution to get kids used to repetitive situations that they would eventually encounter when they'd eventually work at a factory. So, I agree with Sizer and I ask, "Why the hell are we still using this routine to teach children?"
[Message #8]
Amy Lawlor:
end
kozol
[Message #1]
Ruth SanJuan:
Kozol is an educator and writer that traveled the country visiting schools that are some of the most uneducational facilities
[Message #2]
Gilberto Lopez:
sorry i guess i was under someone elses name
[Message #3]
Gilberto Lopez:
He gives us examples from his visit to a highschool in the Bronx NewYork. Kozol states all the problems the school is facing. Problems like leaking roofs many things that don't work and how the satet doesn't give the budgets needed to fix it.
[Message #4]
Gilberto Lopez:
The school seems to be racially segregated mostly made up of Black and Hispanic students.
[Message #5]
Gilberto Lopez:
He not only interviews the faculty but also the students.
[Message #6]
Gilberto Lopez:
The students let him know what they think about the problems taking place in their schools and many others throughout the United States.
[Message #7]
Gilberto Lopez:
The students tell him how society thinks that they dont know whats going on, that they dont really care.
[Message #8]
Gilberto Lopez:
One student tells him that its not true at all. They have eyes and have visited some of the nicer schools in NewYork
[Message #9]
Gilberto Lopez:
Schools that are mostly made up of white teens. They are the ones that are getting all the $$$$$$$$.
[Message #10]
Amy Lawlor:
end
groups:
crimson
[Message #1]
Alex Daugherty:
hey
[Message #2]
EMMA JIMENEZ:
hi
[Message #3]
Ruth SanJuan:
hello
[Message #4]
michael mark:
Hey that's the color of my car!
[Message #5]
EMMA JIMENEZ:
cool!
[Message #6]
EMMA JIMENEZ:
who else is in this group?
[Message #7]
EMMA JIMENEZ:
l'm sorry, but what are we supposed to be talking about?
[Message #8]
Ruth SanJuan:
After reading the different discussions, we are supposed to answer the questions posted on the screen
[Message #9]
Ruth SanJuan:
is everyone ready
[Message #10]
Alex Daugherty:
yeah
[Message #11]
Ruth SanJuan:
is everyone ready now
[Message #12]
Ruth SanJuan:
oh well whoever's here let's discuss
[Message #13]
Ruth SanJuan:
specific failures of education are, classes are too big. Students are taught wrong methods of learning. Students are being taught information deemed important, despite the fact that the information is often ill-informed and biased.
[Message #14]
michael mark:
So I think that the authors are touching on how alot of education is very scripted toward older traditional set values and rules. Social segrgation of different ethnic back grounds and the genders. some may not think of doing it intentionally ,but they cannot help it thier trained to think like that.
[Message #15]
Ruth SanJuan:
true
[Message #16]
Alex Daugherty:
yeah, also students are not encouraged to think independently, and they are not encouraged to learn outside of school
[Message #17]
Ruth SanJuan:
yes, first hand learning is often better than learning from a book
[Message #18]
Ruth SanJuan:
In my opinion students learn more from each other than from a textbook
[Message #19]
EMMA JIMENEZ:
according to sadker, some teachers are still discriminating against girls in particular making them feel as though they have less rights than boys do in terms of education. according to kozol, a lot of schools are too selective when it comes to admission, which is why poor kids stay in poorer schools.
[Message #20]
michael mark:
I think that it just tries to reinforce what lowen is trying to sat about education.
[Message #21]
Amy Lawlor:
end
forest
[Message #1]
kristina oda:
hello my fellow foresters!
[Message #2]
Rico Sandriana:
hey...
[Message #3]
Nick Luciano:
whats up
[Message #4]
kristina oda:
okay so what are we suppose to talk about??
[Message #5]
kristina oda:
do we write answers for everything??
[Message #6]
Rico Sandriana:
I'm not sure....
[Message #7]
kristina oda:
okay lets write it
[Message #8]
Rico Sandriana:
wait lemme ask her
[Message #9]
kristina oda:
1. a review and critique of the high shcool system as it was defined in the late 50's, a long with ideas on fixing the identical problems.
[Message #10]
Rico Sandriana:
we're suppose to read the answers that the group wrote
[Message #11]
Nick Luciano:
Whats going on?
[Message #12]
Rico Sandriana:
after we read everyone's answers than we answer the questions on the screen
[Message #13]
kristina oda:
well i wrote number one for my group
[Message #14]
Nick Luciano:
Sadker and Sadker write that education even in todays schools, still supress women. While males are encourged to speak up and be assertive, females are encourged to be reserved and work quietly.
[Message #15]
Rico Sandriana:
can anyone answer number 1? o(^_^)o
[Message #16]
Nick Luciano:
I thought thats what I just did?
[Message #17]
Rico Sandriana:
oh ok sorry didn't see it
[Message #18]
kristina oda:
hmm
[Message #19]
kristina oda:
well do you guys want to answer number 2
[Message #20]
Rico Sandriana:
I'll try
[Message #21]
kristina oda:
okay..2. the main idea was the way different stratagies of students were taught in the 18 high schools surveyed along with an extendedexplaination of how to structure schools more culturely
[Message #22]
Nick Luciano:
2)I don't htink my reading does, my reading ties more into gender roles and beauty and the beast.
[Message #23]
kristina oda:
and number 3 is everything was compart metalized students were seperated and treated potential as definded aby administration. girls and boys were treated differently and exceptions were set in acordance with social roles.
[Message #24]
Amy Lawlor:
end
sunburst
[Message #1]
Chochi Santos:
Hello MOTO
[Message #2]
Gilberto Lopez:
Goodmorning
[Message #3]
Chochi Santos:
So... What do ya got?
[Message #4]
Gilberto Lopez:
The board of education is not providing equal shares to the schools
[Message #5]
Chochi Santos:
Interesting
[Message #6]
Chochi Santos:
Some of the things that Sizer complained about were certain practices that have been "discovered to be wrong headed." He believed that these practices should be discontinued. I agree with Sizer. Schools will never move forward if we keep upholding the outdated practices of the past. Did you know that most of the concepts of how school should work was never made for the purpose of educating children. For example, our idea of teaching a group of kids a standardized amount of information from a standardized book, and then testing them with a standized test was never meant to teach kids anything at all. In fact, this "routine" was made during the industrial revolution to get kids used to repetitive situations that they would eventually encounter when they'd eventually work at a factory. So, I agree with Sizer and I ask, "Why the hell are we still using this routine to teach children?"
[Message #7]
Gilberto Lopez:
I totally agree with you. If we someday do change the way we teach schools it will not last for long.
[Message #8]
Gilberto Lopez:
New generations will be way different to the way we are now.
[Message #9]
Gilberto Lopez:
So the way we teach and learn should be expected to change as time passes us by
[Message #10]
Chochi Santos:
Interesting
[Message #11]
Chochi Santos:
Have a nice weekend.
[Message #12]
Chochi Santos:
See ya later space cowboy
[Message #13]
Gilberto Lopez:
Kozol shows us in his essay the different ways schools can suffer by being left out
[Message #14]
Gilberto Lopez:
Schools being racially segregated and not recieving enough $$$$$$$ to fix the schools
[Message #15]
Gilberto Lopez:
he tells us how the schools that are mostly made up of white students somehow seem to be nicer schools with a better reputation
[Message #16]
Gilberto Lopez:
this i would have to say is probably the first thing we have to fix ASAP
[Message #17]
Gilberto Lopez:
Students can't learn in a facility that feels more like an unfixed building after an earthquake
[Message #18]
Amy Lawlor:
end
pale blue
[Message #1]
James Reclus:
hello
[Message #2]
Urias Mauricio:
hi there
[Message #3]
Nancy Duran:
Hi everyone!
[Message #4]
James Reclus:
So basically what we are doing is reading over all of the other topics and then coming together and discussing them? This is going to take a whil.
[Message #5]
James Reclus:
Well, there are a lot of ways that education fails students.
Conant:
-"Girls and boys were treated differently and expectations were treated differently and expectations were set in accordance with social roles."(Tim Ashton)
Dewey:
-"Lowen seems to say that the traditional that the traditional is not practical in todays h.s. education, it needs to be customized to the student. but Dewey wants to use both Traditional and progressive information and teaching styles for students."(michael mark)
Eliot:
-"The main idea of the story was that a committee of 10 was appointed to determine the future of American Education. The committee was able to come up with suggestions and guidelines that secondary schools should follow in their institutions. We found out that the committee came up with both relevant and irrelevant guidelines and suggestions in regards to todays education."(Ruth SanJuan)
Sizer:
-"Loewen's ideas are related to Sizer in that they portray the inadequite ways of teaching and learning that are excerisized in society.. More specifically...
- they both belive that subjects should be not fragmented, but morre unified
-both have problems with students passivity, both feel that change is neccasary to involve students
-parents should act as collaborators(Sizer), parents as tools in teaching(Loewen)
-"Schools should not be comprehensive"(Sizer, pg. 304), Loewen belived historical events should be taught in-depth, not a skimming off the top kind of thing, which is a shallow covering of many events
- they both feel schools should provoke students to think independently
- in conflict with Loewen's views
-- "the choice of teaching materials... must be unreservedly placed in the hands of principal and staff." (305)
-- Loewen belives that teachers should teach what they feel is appropriate, not just what is given to them
(this info. is for #3)"(Alex Daugherty)
okay, these seem to be the main points I got from some of the groups
[Message #6]
Nancy Duran:
One way that education fails students is that some books, for example, biology doesn't have much detail so when students get to college and take it there they will discovered that they really didn't learn much.
[Message #7]
James Reclus:
Sorry, this was more of a summary of the main points rather than answer either question:
1. According to these authors, what are the ways (general and specific) that education fails students?
2. How does a reading of these authors provide a background to understanding Loewen?
Again, sorry, but I was trying to get the main points down so that we could all discuss them by answer the questions
[Message #8]
Nancy Duran:
Kozol talks about how one school in the Bronx are not getting funds to fixed up there school. He mentions how there are leaks and holes in the school. He also talks about how there is discrimation only blacks and hispanic attend there.
[Message #9]
Amy Lawlor:
end
sienna
[Message #1]
Tim Ashton:
Hello...I am now reading the other responses
[Message #2]
Tim Ashton:
Dewey first
[Message #3]
Azran Ashroff:
yo
[Message #4]
Azran Ashroff:
who in this group?
[Message #5]
Tim Ashton:
How does he think edutcation fails.....me bro......
[Message #6]
Azran Ashroff:
so u going to reply to that?
[Message #7]
Tim Ashton:
Dewey is evaluating the current school system (not current for us but for him)
[Message #8]
Azran Ashroff:
so whats his point compared to lowens?
[Message #9]
Tim Ashton:
According to the "Dewey" group:
This relates to Loewen because Jonathan Kozol say it is important to teach traditional and progressive and Loewen also think that history teacher should talk about how history is related to the present.
[Message #10]
Azran Ashroff:
cause in my story sadker talks bout how girls are discriminated agasint
and how they aint never really speak out
[Message #11]
Tim Ashton:
Dewey says Ed fails by maintinaing an old status quo that is not (was not) revelvent to the student.
[Message #12]
Tim Ashton:
Now to Eliot and the Committee of 10.
[Message #13]
Azran Ashroff:
Sadkers points were pretty interesting becuase of the way he was laying out the fact that teachers teach things the way they desire to teach, and young boys are encouraged to be assertive and felt free to speak out whicle young girls are encouraged to keep quiet
[Message #14]
Tim Ashton:
The cmmitees of ten defined the way schools ran and run
[Message #15]
Tim Ashton:
Building a school system by committee is not a bad thing that fails the students but the lack of current rules addressing modern issues is a problem that does effect the students in the schools.
[Message #16]
Tim Ashton:
This peice feels more like a bit of background information as opposed .
[Message #17]
Tim Ashton:
as opposed to a failure
[Message #18]
Tim Ashton:
On to Sadker
[Message #19]
Azran Ashroff:
sadker hold up it take a minit
[Message #20]
Tim Ashton:
au-ight
[Message #21]
Tim Ashton:
holding
[Message #22]
Erica Ruiz:
In Sizer's "What High School Can Be" he believes education has failed because the teachers and students are very passive and don't use their minds well, they are not challenged to think. In one of the schools he visited, he said that they had routines and drills and that forced students and teachers to become ineffective and not interested in learning. He suggests nine ideas of what he believes would improve the schools.
2. This reading provides background to understanding Loewen because they both believe schools should provoke students to think independently, subjects should be not fragmented, but more unified and parents should be involved in their child's education.
[Message #23]
Azran Ashroff:
sadker is jsut pretty much talking about how girls are differetn from boys in schools
[Message #24]
Azran Ashroff:
like i feel that he was talking about how to get girsl to be more talkative in class and more exploritive
[Message #25]
Tim Ashton:
in a good or bad way?...I mean.....they are different
[Message #26]
Amy Lawlor:
end