02/05/04
Mango:
in your interchange groups, report on the following:
Where specifically do you find evidence of Milagros' transformation?
Where specifically, do you find evidence of Nelda's transformation? And Victors?
What are the themes in the story? Explain.
Tomato and Mango groups: What are the themes in "Her Wild American
Self"? Make sure you indicate specific places in the text to support your
theme(s) + page numbers.
Grape and Pineapple groups: What are the themes in "Lectures on How You
Never Lived Back Home"? Make sure you indicate specific places in the text
to support your theme(s) + page numbers.
[Message #1]
hazel levita:
ok,. how do we start
[Message #2]
Eloisa Palomaria:
wer're talking about transformations
[Message #3]
Eloisa Palomaria:
so...
[Message #4]
hazel levita:
Milagros changed starting in page 42
[Message #5]
hazel levita:
uncle Victor changed at the end when he started crying as a sign of defeat i guess
[Message #6]
Eloisa Palomaria:
yeah okay she was shy timid and passive in the beginning
[Message #7]
Eloisa Palomaria:
and then she starts to come out of her shell starting with that page mentioned
[Message #8]
Eloisa Palomaria:
are we the only two mangos
[Message #9]
hazel levita:
hehe i dunno
[Message #10]
hazel levita:
there's a transformation in Nelda too, when she got frustrated and fought with Milagros
[Message #11]
hazel levita:
but other than that I think she didnt change anymore,
[Message #12]
Eloisa Palomaria:
okay, well then, yeah that's true she got tired of being the "nice hostess"
[Message #13]
hazel levita:
yea, she was having a really hard time with the way MIlagros was not what she expected, and she thought that since she's been there for a while now, she should have warmed up to her, but i really think that Milagros did warm up to her, she just didnt show it the way that Nelda wanted her to
[Message #14]
hazel levita:
that began in page 41
[Message #15]
stephen starypan:
transformation begines, bottom of page 46, ("leave nelda alone"). milagros intevenes when the other kids were picking on nelda. on page 47, "oh, yes," miloagros said smiling. "sometimes." this is the beginning of interaction between the two girls.
[Message #16]
Justin Junio:
please join the list
[Message #17]
Eloisa Palomaria:
Milagros: 42 46
[Message #18]
hazel levita:
i really think that the interaction between them occured long before that, when Milagros would pull Nelda into her room to listen to records on page 34,. cuz thats a sign that she began to warm up to her, it just wasnt up to Nelda's expectations of what their relationship should be
[Message #19]
Eloisa Palomaria:
are we answering the questions now or are we still talking about how they transformed
[Message #20]
hazel levita:
Milagros was just acting the way she is expected to, a quiet submissive girl. If she didnt warm up to Nelda she wouldnt have taken the initiative and pulled her into the room to listen to records
[Message #21]
hazel levita:
i think we are answering the questions as we talk about how they transform, cuz we're adding the page numbers along with it
[Message #22]
hazel levita:
do you want to move on now?
[Message #23]
hazel levita:
to the themes?
[Message #24]
hazel levita:
why do you think uncle victor was crying?
[Message #25]
Eloisa Palomaria:
so uncle victor was "ma ya bang" in the beginning saying he's gonna have this fat life in america working for a law firm but it wasn't easy so he ended up working at the diner
[Message #26]
Eloisa Palomaria:
i guess he was crying because his diner job wasn't what he wanted or what he expected of himself
[Message #27]
Eloisa Palomaria:
he didn't get to reach his goal quite yet like he let himself down
[Message #28]
Eloisa Palomaria:
and most importantly to him he let his family down
[Message #29]
hazel levita:
but he knew that he could just beging working at a law firm because he said somewhere that he was gonna get a job first then he'll get his law degree again because the laws in the Philippines is different from the laws in America
[Message #30]
hazel levita:
he knew that he wasnt gonna be a lawyer at the diner because on page 45 when he was telling them how he got a job he said that he'll pass his review and start his own firm soon
[Message #31]
hazel levita:
i saw him telling them that the diner needing a lawyer as him being sarcastic,
[Message #32]
hazel levita:
its in pg 36 where they talk about he couldnt work as a lawyer because of the law differences
[Message #33]
hazel levita:
do you want to move to themes now, i dont think we'll have enough time
[Message #34]
stephen starypan:
on page 49 we see victor, emotionally leting go, repeatedly hitting his head against the wall. nelda hears the noise and goes to the door, peeks in and mtakes in the scene. she's confused, but begins to understand what's going on with victor, but more importantly, begins to understand why milagros is the way she is, that is, being strong and emotionally more mature than her years. victor, we see, his jovial, optomistic nature gone, and in place, a shattered, broken, individual, who cannot accept what has happened to him in america.
[Message #35]
hazel levita:
Themes: the contrast between a being Filipino(Milagros) and Filipino-American(Nelda), Discrimination, and Disappointments (hopes and dreams)
[Message #36]
Eloisa Palomaria:
cool out the cutties
[Message #37]
hazel levita:
hehe, she said we have to finish it soon,. but we already talked about it,
[Message #38]
Eloisa Palomaria:
no i mean stephen
[Message #39]
hazel levita:
oh,.. haha,. he's quiet
[Message #40]
Eloisa Palomaria:
alright so the contrast between being a filipino and a filipino american...Nelda doesn't know why milagros acts the way she does...
[Message #41]
stephen starypan:
this story has varied themes that are interconnected to make this store whole. we see nelda growing up in the u.s. not having the burden of responsability. in other words, growing up with a normal childhood. milagros, on the other hand, has to carry her share of family resonsability right from the start. we see in victor a man who has come to a new country where he thinks making his fotune is easy. in reality, he finds that america is the same as any other country, where being an outsider keeps you down.
[Message #42]
hazel levita:
ok i think that the themes in the story is a child's rebellion to the wide and strict expectations of a parents
[Message #43]
Eloisa Palomaria:
for the talk to me story
[Message #44]
hazel levita:
Augustina(67-69)
[Message #45]
hazel levita:
no the new one
[Message #46]
hazel levita:
Her wild american self
[Message #47]
hazel levita:
hmmmmm,... i'll just keep listing it
[Message #48]
Eloisa Palomaria:
so something like not doing anything bad to embarrass the family name
[Message #49]
Eloisa Palomaria:
to have boundaries, typical strict filipino parents
[Message #50]
hazel levita:
struggle to keep old culture (new vs. old)
[Message #51]
Eloisa Palomaria:
wanting their children to be modest
[Message #52]
hazel levita:
keeping face in society
[Message #53]
hazel levita:
hmmm,.. i dunno what else
[Message #54]
hazel levita:
keeping face in society(pg73)when the girl was disowned to try to save the family's name
[Message #55]
Eloisa Palomaria:
just basically girls having to be hella "tamed"
[Message #56]
Eloisa Palomaria:
girls shouldn't be sleeping around or being a hoe bag
[Message #57]
hazel levita:
struggle to keep old culture(pg68) "America land of opportunity, home of democracy, and equality-- but God forbid that they should be like those Americans
[Message #58]
Eloisa Palomaria:
girls are suppose to be chaste
[Message #59]
Eloisa Palomaria:
or something like that
[Message #60]
hazel levita:
haha,. i think the parents pushed them too it
[Message #61]
Eloisa Palomaria:
yeah because too many restrictions might make a person rebel
[Message #62]
hazel levita:
she wanted to be a saint,. a religious icon or something like bernadette and teresa and lourdes, then her parents wont let her do what she wants to so she rebels,. still wanting to be be a saint or something but at the same time being bad which is ironic
[Message #63]
hazel levita:
it would have been a little better if they just let her keep playing with the boys in the neighborhood, maybe she wouldnt have had sex with he own cousin
[Message #64]
hazel levita:
i always wondered why people think that sending a child to a same sex catholic or private school would help discipline them,. it wont really help much, it depends on the child,.
[Message #65]
hazel levita:
it makes them even angrier and stuff and might cause them to rebel more,
[Message #66]
Amy Lawlor:
end 02/05