[Message #1]
Amy Lawlor:
Using the definitions of allegory and symbol, discuss Mr. Ngugi's use of these literary devices in "The Testimony of Kihaahu wa Gatheeca"

Where does he use them?
What are the larger metaphorical meanings associated with the things Gatheeca "steals"?
What is the statement about Colonialism Ngugi is making?

[Message #2]
Joseph Fogel:
anyone there

[Message #3]
Jody Chan:
What are the definitions of allegory and symbol?

[Message #4]
Jody Chan:
how many people are in this group?

[Message #5]
Al Garcia:
Three

[Message #6]
Joseph Fogel:
sorry i'm not sure about allegory but by symbol I think she wants the meaning behind the objects

[Message #7]
Jody Chan:
yea i understand that part but not the first

[Message #8]
Joseph Fogel:
do you have a dictionary

[Message #9]
Jody Chan:
well let's just work on the last two first and then go back to the first question

[Message #10]
Al Garcia:
Yea, same here. I'm just rereading a few parts in hope of maybe understanding what she wants in the first part

[Message #11]
Jody Chan:
no i don't but we could go online and look for it...i'll do that just hold up a sec

[Message #12]
Al Garcia:
That works

[Message #13]
Joseph Fogel:
allegory means a symbolic object such as an emblem

[Message #14]
Jody Chan:
Allegory: A narrative poem in which an intellectual (and usually moral, political,or religious meaning) is to be understood beneath a surface story, and indeed to be spelled out and made vivid by that story. In allegory, characters represent concepts, so that conflicts and resolutions among characters result in the statement or modification of abstract doctrine. Allegory succeeds when it satisfies three sets of conditions: 

(a) its surface or literal story is interesting and exciting; 
(b) its abstract correlatives are clearly discernible and are consistent in their  relationships with the personifications or symbols which represent them in the surface plot; and 
(c) the philosophical thesis thus acted out is of wide applicability to human experience.

[Message #15]
Joseph Fogel:
let's talk about the metaphoric objects in which he steals

[Message #16]
Joseph Fogel:
first we should talk about what he steals

[Message #17]
Joseph Fogel:
women, money, trust

[Message #18]
Jody Chan:
yea, he steals land, women, education, housing and politics

[Message #19]
Joseph Fogel:
okay now we neeed to get metophorical on this piece

[Message #20]
Jody Chan:
he devours his own kind to get rich, so basically he cheats his own people rather than stealing from the poor

[Message #21]
Joseph Fogel:
"i think it's more more complex than that"
         -Jim Bruer

[Message #22]
Al Garcia:
Ha, what are your thoughts then?

[Message #23]
Jody Chan:
He steals these things to make his ego and self feel more worth while?

[Message #24]
Joseph Fogel:
he said that he likes to take things for the challenge of it

[Message #25]
Jody Chan:
so then it's like a hype for him not so much as to have the riches but the fact that he can get away with it

[Message #26]
Joseph Fogel:
that's what i think

[Message #27]
Joseph Fogel:
it seems he's in it for the thrill

[Message #28]
Jody Chan:
okee then that is are metaphor then?

[Message #29]
Jody Chan:
should we work on the colonialism aspect now?

[Message #30]
Joseph Fogel:
the women he takes can be metaphorical for the lust of man, the money and land can be greed, yet at the same time he feels completion and satisfaction for doing it

[Message #31]
Jody Chan:
okee wut about the education and the politics?

[Message #32]
Joseph Fogel:
It seems that he uses colonialism as an advantage because when he had the ad saying the teacher was from africa he got no results yet when he had a european teacher he flourished

[Message #33]
Joseph Fogel:
so maybe they look at it as an advantage to grow and learn rather than as a plaque ijn the previous stories

[Message #34]
Joseph Fogel:
what do you guys think

[Message #35]
Jody Chan:
i think the colonial aspect is that he and all the other rich people use the poor people to make them selves stronger but with Kihhaahu he uses the rich and poor to make him self richer

[Message #36]
Jody Chan:
also

[Message #37]
Jody Chan:
hey Al wut do you think>?

[Message #38]
Joseph Fogel:
as for the political view i don't think he takes it to seriously it seems more of a game of monopoly, winning trust, money, land instead of doing the things he needs to do to help the people

[Message #39]
Jody Chan:
yea i agree

[Message #40]
Joseph Fogel:
i just finished reading your opinion and you have some strong points as well

[Message #41]
Joseph Fogel:
i do think he uses both the rich and poor to gain himself more power

[Message #42]
Jody Chan:
so he uses more the rich then?

[Message #43]
Jody Chan:
okee bye everyone

[Message #44]
Amy Lawlor:
end